Just a handful of changes

[Ytown Tribe fan]

The 1913 Philadelphia Athletics were a great team -- winning 96 games that year and the World Series. They had a core of fine players who were under 30.

In 1914, the team was even greater, winning 99 games, but losing the WS.

By 1915, Connie Mack decided he couldn't afford it anymore and had to replace his biggest stars. Keeping the same lineup, but substituting 40-year-old Nap Lajoie for Eddie Collins and snd, and good young player Wally Schang for Frank Baker at 3rd, the team went from 1st to 6th in runs overnight -- gruesome considering they played in the best hitter's park in the AL.

Connie also released his two best pitchers, Eddie Plank and Chief Bender, and his fine pitching went to dead last in the league.

In one year, they went from 99 game winners to 43 game winners, and won only 36 games in 1916.

Just a few players was all it took to create this disaster.

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[Hawaii007]

I think the key to what you said was that the pitching went to dead last in the league. The tribe has not had any turnover in its pitching staff among the regular rotation. I think that had more of an affect on the huge win total drop then the fact they dropped from 1st to 6th in runs scored.

NO one is denying right now that the Tribe is going to have less offense, and less runs scored, but is that enough to jump off a bridge about? Hell no. I think in general, the prognostication is the effect on the season will be a loss of 5-10 games. Now what matters is how much the ChiSox and the Twins improve.

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[Swanny]

In 2002 new Tribe G.M. Mark Shapiro decided he had to put his stamp on the team immediately. He traded future hall of famer Roberto Alomar to the Mets for one decent player ,(Lawton) one highly touted prospect (Escobar-highly touted only by the Mets organization) and a bunch of ??? He also rewarded Juan Gonzalez who came to the Indians as a free agent the year before and did nothing but mash by not making any effort to re-sign him. Another brilliant move made by Shapiro was the signing of Ricky G to play second. If you are asking yourself who the hell is Ricky G don't worry because you are not the only one. He also decided that Charlie Manuel would still be the manager of the club. Indians brass also made one more huge PR mistake by deciding that the team would wear a "J" on their hats instead of an "I." Many fans were heard saying things like, " I'm not wearing that ugly lid on my head." The team began the season slowly and things just got worse. The team finished the season 73-89 and things were never the same in Cleveland.

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[the teacher]

If you want to make a comparison, I would suggest using the Seattle Mariners. In the past few years, they have lost ARod, Junior, The Unit (3 HOF'ers) not to mention Tino Martinez. Nevertheless, they have built a fabulous team by developing young pitchers, keeping some solid hitters, and adding a few key FA's when the time was right.

I think this is a much more relevant comparison than your 88 year old piece of ancient history.

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Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est

[Ytown Tribe fan]

That is a fair comparison, teacher -- but only to the extenyt that the M's replaced quality players with other quality players.

The Tribe replaced Juan Gonzalez and Robbie Alomar with Ricky G. and Matt Lawton. Those two moves alone could result in 100 fewer runs scored. That will result in real losses.

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[The Crank]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan:
The Tribe replaced Juan Gonzalez and Robbie Alomar with Ricky G. and Matt Lawton. Those two moves alone could result in 100 fewer runs scored. That will result in real losses.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah but lets see if the pitching staff is improved - could be the two will cancel each other out.


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[the teacher]

I'm not suggesting that today's tribe is as good as the M's, the 2001 tribe, or the 1913 A's. It takes a few years to complete a transition like this. With the PR that will be freed up next year (finley, cordero, nagy gone) we should be in good shape to add some quality FA's, and we won't be saddled with long term contracts for over the hill stars. Also the young guys will have a year more experience. It will be fun to watch.

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Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est

[Mr. October]

The only reason the M's stay competitive is Lou Pinella.

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[Hawaii007]

I think we have all been through this already. Lawton is a good player, offensively he should be as good as Alomar. We also got a solid reliable middle reliever to bolster the bullpen at minimal cost. Include a reasonably highly touted prospect like Traber and a bench player or solid minor leaguer like Snyder, it was a decent trade. Yes, the M's got quality players for their players but when any of those moves took place then, everyone said the M's got raped! Which is exactly what all you pessimists are saying now.

We would NOT have been able to sign Juan. THAT is why he was not resigned. Some people are so narrow minded about this situation.

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[teddysurf1]

mr october...
lol.. funny comment. if he is the reason they won all those games this year, whos fault is it they couldnt win with griffey, arod , and johnson. if you want 10-9 games with multiple home runs go get your fill at the local softball parks... im ready for legitimate chance to win and not just be praying that someone like dave burba, chad ogea, or any other "half-ass" pitcher we had to toss the game of their lives and outpitch the likes of mussina, clemens, or martinez etc... and if it takes two years to have a team that is built around pitching like the a's, yankess, mariners... ill wait because i want to win everything not just a sorry weak central division
see yah pizza

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